Re: Altec Valencia shrillness
The Eminence is a fancier packaged version of...
L-Pad 100W Mono 3/8" Shaft 8 Ohm | Parts-Express.com
Don't get lost in the forest. you don't need 6 outputs. Siamesing works fine.
The amps will have level controls (hopefully).
Setup:
two HF out to horn amp left/right. Attenuate 8 ohm horn with L-pad
Two LF out siamesed...one to left of 2 amps, other to right.
Crossover LF full on. Turn on woofer amps only. Play music Using amp level controls, balance volumes of different woofers.
Turn amps off, turn 8 ohm horns completely down. Generally, turn down the xover HF and run the HF amp volume about 2/3.
Turn on 16 ohm woofer amp. At this point you just have 16 ohm woofers. Turn on horn amp and bring up level at xover till sounds balanced.
At this point, the 8 ohm woofers are off and the 8 ohm horns are turned all the way down.
You can then power off the system and power back up with all amps on. Turn up the 8 ohm horns (L-Pads)to balance the 8 ohm woofs.
power amps LAST ON FIRST OFF.
Always start with horns down and bring up to balance the woofs. Start with the horns high, you will temporarily screw your HF hearing.
Generally, you will run the woofers all the way up on the xover and use the HF control for balance.
Re: Altec Valencia shrillness
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Old Guy
Technically. that is misleading.
OG, was just trying to explain as plain as possible, what to look for with a Picture included.;)
PS. But you do explain much better than I :) BTW for an Old Guy you have pretty fast fingers on those keys ! I was going to post that L-pad mono 3/8 and Bam it's already up ! :D I also would like to say a very,very,thorough explanation by OG . Haryn that should just about get you up and running smoothly now to work in setting it all up :coffeedrinker:
Re: Altec Valencia shrillness
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Altec Best
OG, was just trying to explain as plain as possible, what to look for with a Picture included.;)
NP.:D
Wanted to make sure "just a resistor" wasn't taken literally.
Re: Altec Valencia shrillness
You fellows have been busy while I was working!
Yes, what OG said. Use the Rane as a 2 way crossover.
The bass output of the Rane goes to 2 stereo amps (use a Y cable). These 2 amps power your woofers.
The treble output of the Rane goes to 1 low power stereo amp. That amp drives all 4 horns (2 horns left, 2 horns right). Use L-pads on the horns to match the level of the woofer in the same Valencia cabinet.
You'll want some sort of preamp to drive all this with one volume knob. It goes before the crossover. With all these various volume controls - preamp, crossover, 3 amps, L-Pads, it can get confusing. But don't worry, we can walk you thru it all and help you. If you have or can find a voltmeter that has a low AC scale (about 10V) it will help with setting levels.
Re: Altec Valencia shrillness
After talkin with the guy at Parts Express, he suggested the much lower priced Behringer SuperX pro, for about $80. But then to siamese the 2 power amps, he said I should use 2
Rolls MS20c Microphone Splitter/Combiner | Parts-Express.com
mic splitters to go to the 2 power amps at $45 each. His thing was that even though 2 of these splitters cost more than another xover, I would be happier with less stuff to adjust. I don't think that he has the knowledge of the people here that have taken their time to try to help me, or understands after a 5 minute phone call that I have 16 and 8 ohm speakers.
Since my Harman Kardon has 7 preamp outputs, and I thought that the cleanest signal went through the least of other crap, then this not only costs a little more, but would be less effective sound wise to using 2 xovers direct to the power amps.
Am I missing something here? How hard can it be to adjust a box to something that sounds better, and then leave it alone? I have never done this, but isn't it like adjusting the bass and treble on an amp? You turn a knob and listen for the difference, better or worse. And with 2 systems, the matching volume should be a no brainer, and not require the Lpads.
If I am understanding all that you all have said, and the articles that you have linked to, then the best thing would be to do away with the Lpads and these mic splitters, and just get 2 of the xovers, and treat each one differently according to the ohm impendance, with nothing in between. Then my surround sound, which I really haven't been able to hear yet, would still be effective, and I would spend less and have less connections. I have 2 separate outputs that I will be using, just like 2 separate stereo systems playing the same music. Isn't the best and cheapest, using the Behringers, to keep it all separate, and adjust and play each one as desired?
Do you all agree with this salesman that I can spend a lot more money, and not hear a difference over the Behringers'?
Thanks for all your help and suggestions. That is what these forums are for, and I only hope that someday I may be able to help someone else from the knoweldge that you have, and I hope to get soon.
Re: Altec Valencia shrillness
You are getting lost in the translation here.
First, the 16 ohm units aren't going to sound like the 8 ohm units.
Start with the 8 ohm units, get them sounding good, then do the 16 ohm units.
Neither are going to sound good with high power SS amps. They just aren't.
With blown HF drivers, and a blown cap in the crossover, someone blasted them to pieces with amps like you have.
If you insist on SS amps, OG can recommend a suitable resistor to add in series with the speaker to mimic a tube amp. These speakers love tube amps! 40 watts is more than enough. (BTW....non fedback tube amps retain the wonderful sounding 2nd harmonics...ask me how I know)
The stock crossovers need to be replaced with N1201-8A or M19 crossovers. Vastly superior to the orig 2 way.
I tried bi-amping using the M19 crossovers, and it was a pain in the a$$. Constant tweaking with the levels, and I used 4 identical Heathkit triode amps.
I believe if you use SS amps and an active 2 way x-over, you will never be satisfied.
And you don't need to run all 4 of these with a center channel to blow your ears off!
And I totaly agree with Steve Mac....bad recordings will sound bad on these, untill you get them tamed a bit....but they will still sound bad. You can't fix that.
You are starting an Altec journey here, be patient, it's a system, involves the CD player, preamp, amps, speaks and the room ( which is highly underated) and most of all your ears.
Ron
Re: Altec Valencia shrillness
Ron,
You are right, I am a little lost. I thought I had it all figured out last night, and woke up this morning realizing that to do what I was going to with 2 xovers, I needed another amp.
It is too late to go to tube amps at this stage, so I would like to find out about the resistor you mentioned. Also I need to find some Y cables like Old Dog had mentioned for the 2 big amps, and get the Lpads for the 8 ohm horns. Does anyone know where to find the Y cables? The splitter boxes the Parts Express guy wanted me to buy just seem wrong.
Sorry to be such a pain, but some of this is finally sinking in. I still want to try the bi-amping, and if I can't get it to sound right, I will just sell it all and go to tubes and passive xovers. I have bought too much stuff, probably over kill as you all keep telling me, to stop now before I get at least something finished.
If nothing else, it is fun fooling around with this stuff, and learning a whole lot of new things. At least I am at a time in my life when I can afford another hobby.
Re: Altec Valencia shrillness
Sadly the guy at Parts Express is a salesman. He wants to sell you what he has.
You do NOT need the splitter.
If you insist on Behringer
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/CX3400.aspx
The parts express Behringer won't be any cheaper than a used Rane
Re: Altec Valencia shrillness
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonSSS
Start with the 8 ohm units, get them sounding good, then do the 16 ohm units.
I have to disagree...I recommend balancing the woofs together, then bringing uo the horns one set at a time...
As far as amps, it gets personal and I don't wanna delve there. I suggest get it working first then making improvements. Stop when happy.
Re: Altec Valencia shrillness
Quote:
As far as amps, it gets personal and I don't wanna delve there.
No opinion offered, just a comment: I found it to be a little more cut and dry after finally grasping a basic understanding of the relationship between load impedance, amplifier output impedance, and damping. Thank you GM!:2thumbsup:
